A mega viral episode of The Tucker Carlson Show has sparked a heated debate about the legacy of World War 2.
The broadcast, which garnered 25 million views on X since Monday, features historian Darryl Cooper, who hosts the podcast Martyr Made.
The over-two-hour interview covers a number of topics, ranging from the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict, the Jonestown cult, mass immigration in Europe, and World War 2.
A portion of the episode where Cooper, whom Carlson describes as “the best and most honest popular historian in the United States,” discusses Winston Churchill drew fierce criticism from pundits and X users.
“I think maybe I'm being a little hyperbolic maybe, but … I thought Churchill was the chief villain of the Second World War,” Cooper said. “He didn't kill the most people. He didn't commit the most atrocities. … He was primarily responsible for that war becoming what it did.”
Carlson cut in and asked Cooper to make the case for his claim: “A lot of people are thinking, well, wait a second. You said Churchill, my childhood hero, the guy with the cigar,” he said.
Cooper continued:Well, and the next thought that comes into their head ... is that, oh, you're saying Churchill was the chief villain. Therefore, his enemies, you know, Adolf Hitler and so forth were the protagonists, right? They're the good guys. If you think he's a villain, that's not the case. That's not what I'm saying.
You know, Germany, look, they, they put themselves into a position, and Adolf Hitler is chiefly responsible for this, but his whole regime is responsible for it, that when they went into the East, in 1941, they launched a war where they were completely unprepared to deal with the millions and millions of prisoners of war, of local political prisoners and so forth, that they were gonna have to handle.
They went in with no plan for that and they just threw these people into camps and millions of people ended up dead there. What Daryl Cooper @martyrmade actually says on Tucker interview: “[Because] Churchill was the chief villain…therefore Adolf Hitler was the protagonist right? But no, that’s not the case, that’s not what I’m saying.” pic.twitter.com/rdiOpP8obn
— Jabron Nemo (@nemojab) September 4, 2024
Cooper then argued that components of the traditional narrative of World War 2 have become akin to modern American mythology.
Since his appearance with Carlson, Cooper’s Martyr Made has become the top podcast in the world on iTunes — surpassing Carslon, who's podcast is now at number two.
— Martyr Made (@martyrmade) September 3, 2024
Elon Musk initially reposted the interview and commented, “Very interesting. Worth watching.” He has since deleted the post following backlash from other users on X.
Former lawmaker Liz Cheney slammed the episode as “pro-Nazi propaganda.”
“No serious or honorable person would support or endorse this type of garbage,” she wrote on X.
On Wednesday, the episode received a community note on X that read: “Civilian deaths in eastern Europe were not as a result of the Germans being overwhelmed by refugees but rather as a result of a pre planned strategy of Reinhard Heydrich's einsatzgruppen. This is extensively documented in letters, orders, eyewitness reports and photos.”
The note included a link to a Wikipedia page on Einsatzgruppen.
Cooper followed up his comments about Churchill with a long thread on Tuesday that provided additional information to support his argument. At the time of reporting, seven of the 54 entries in thread have received community notes.
